On our 34th episode, Nate hijacks the show and chit chats with you about:

  1. Upcoming announcements for the website and podcast
  2. A question on the Nephilim in Genesis 6 from Brandon Medina (Theology Think Tank)
  3. The structure of the Christian worldview from the Book of Romans

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Ep. 34: Nate at Night

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*Bumper music by bensound.com
*Thunder sound effect by Grant Evans
*TV Static sound effect by Mike Koenig
*Maniacal Laughter by Nate Sala
*Shia LeBeouf “Just Do It” Motivational Speech (Original Video) via Youtube https://youtu.be/ZXsQAXx_ao0

3 COMMENTS

  1. Thanks for addressing my question on the new podcast. I figured the group would have differing options, it is a difficult question to be sure. While I didn’t agree completely with your take I do appreciate the viewpoint so I can think about and go through the strengths and weaknesses of my understanding of the topic.

    Looking forward to hearing what Alex might say in a later podcast.

    To further explain the view my friend Chris Waner, and myself have. I have included a write up we did for our class.

    I AM NOT TRYING TO CONVINCE YOU, (I don’t want to get into a back and forth of proofs, that grows tedious and accomplishes little)but rather exchange some of our ideas which you addressed in the podcast. It is rather long but I, we, would love to hear the guys and your thoughts.

    The obvious question is, why was there a flood to destroy mankind?

    Genesis 6:1-7, “When man began to multiply on the face of the land and daughters were born to them, the sons of God saw that the daughters of man were attractive. And they took as their wives any they chose. Then the Lord said, “My Spirit shall not abide in man forever, for he is flesh: his days shall be 120 years.” The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of man and they bore children to them. These were the mighty men who were of old, the men of renown. The Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And the Lord regretted that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him to his heart. So the Lord said, “I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the land, man and animals and creeping things and birds of the heavens, for I am sorry that I have made them.”
    Who are these sons of God?

    Genesis 6:1-2, “When man began to multiply on the face of the land and daughters were born to them, the sons of God saw that the daughters of man were attractive. And they took as their wives any they chose.”
    Sons of God—Benei Ha’Elohim, is the phrase used in the Bible to always mean a direct creation of God, like Adam and the angels but not us. What we see here are angels, direct creation of God, taking the daughters of man.

    An interesting thing as well is that Christians are referred to as the sons of God as well so what is the difference? We obviously aren’t angels; we are sons of Adam but also as Christians direct creations of God. How? In 1 John 3:1-2:

    “Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore, the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.” And in 2 Cor 5:17, “ Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.”
    We have a new birth and are a new direct creation of God so we can be called “sons of God”.

    Before moving on to the Nephilim we need to address two competing ideas. The first is the one taught in seminary still today and the other is detailed below when we discuss the Nephilim. The first is referred to as the “Line of Seth” teaching, the idea that there was a “faithful or godly” line of Seth and a “worldly” line of Cain because he was a murderer And the flood was brought about because leadership in Seth’s line, the “sons of God,” intermarried with Cain’s line, “the daughter of Cain”. This however does nothing to explain why they named their offspring “the Nephilim” [the Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of man and they bore children to them. These were the mighty men who were of old, the men of renown.]

    Problems with this view:

    Sons of Gods – Benei Ha’Elohim – the phrase used in the Bible to always mean, of a direct creation of God
    Daughters of man – nowhere in the text does it indicate these women were only from the line of Cain.
    No proof is given in Scripture up to this point that the lines of Seth and Cain were instructed to remain separate. That comes later.
    No evidence stating the line of Seth was godly. If they were godly why did they die in the flood?
    Could a union between the lines of Seth and Cain produced these genetically distinctive offspring, these giants and men of renown? Wouldn’t the better explanation be the taking of women by the ‘sons of god’ (the Benei Ha’Elohim)?
    Why this is still the main view taught to church leaders today is anyone’s guess, but it has serious problems.

    So let’s move to a second idea for why the flood happened:

    Who are the Nephilim?

    Was the evil in the world worse than it is today? It seems so, as we read in Genesis 6:5, “The Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.” But was there something else going on as well?

    The Nephilim. Who were they? How do they figure in?

    The Nephilim are referred to in the Bible as the heroes of old, men of renown. They were children born to the “sons of God” by the “daughters of men”, they are described as giants. The word Nephilim means “fallen” or “deserter”. These “sons of God” were mating with human women and having offspring. Some sort of hybrid, half angel and half human. The Septuagint translates the word Nephilim into “gigantes” which was then translated into English as “giant” because it sounded like giant. The word gigantes comes from the word gigas which means “earth-born”. This is the same word used in Greek mythology to mean “titans”, who in Greek mythology were the offspring of the Greek gods and human women. These offspring were referred to as demigods: Atlas and Hercules, part god and part man.

    In Jude we get a reference to these Nephilim, in verses 6 and 7 Jude writes,

    “And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day, just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.”
    Jude tells us that some of the angels left heaven and like in Sodom and Gomorrah went after strange flesh, alluding to them committing some kind of sexual immorality.

    What does Jude mean by, “And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation?”

    Habitation—oi-kā-tā’-rē-on, refers to the body as a dwelling place for the spirit. Only used twice in the New Testament. The angles shed their heavenly bodies in order to fulfill their lust. This term is used in 2 Cor. 5:2 and means the resurrection body which we aspire to possess.

    In 2 Peter 2:4,5 Peter refers to these fallen angels in Genesis then says they have been sent or cast down to Tartarus, a Greek term for the dark abode of woe. And is only used once in the Bible, here in 2 Peter. Homer in the Iliad refers to it to mean, “as far below hades as the earth is below heaven. . .”

    Could the effect the Nephilim had on mankind be the primary reason that brought the destruction? This is an interesting theory but first let’s prove Noah was real. As we talked about a couple of weeks ago it is now popular to say Genesis 1-6 is myth or metaphor.

    Proof for Noah:

    Mentioned along with Job and Daniel as one of the three righteous ones – Ezek 14
    He is included in genealogies – Luke 3
    Referred to in the New Testament – Matt 24, 1 Peter 3, 2 Peter 2, and in Hebrews 11 (the faith chapter)
    Genesis 6:9, “These are the generations of Noah. Noah was a righteous man, blameless in his generation. Noah walked with God.”

    Blameless = tä·mem’ = complete, whole, perfect

    This does not mean Noah was morally perfect? No, he was born a sinner. So what does it mean? As we read above the Nephilim were taking women and having children. This could mean that Noah’s lineage was the only “complete, whole or perfect” one left. Why does this matter?

    Some have theorized that Satan through the Nephilim was trying to pollute the lineage to Jesus, to stop God’s plan for a redeemer of men. This was a direct attempt by Satan to corrupt that bloodline by having fallen angels have sexual relations with women. If Noah didn’t have any Nephilim or hybrid genes in his family lineage, then God could use his family line to lead to Jesus. This would mean the flood was not only one of judgement but also one of mercy as it insured a path to our redeemer.

    Is this idea crazy? It seems like it at first, but Satan tries many other times after this to destroy the path to the Messiah and then finally a few direct attacks on Jesus. Look at some examples below:

    The Egyptian pharaoh’s edict to kill all the male babies. (Exodus 1)
    The Pharaoh chasing the Israelites into the Red Sea. (Exodus 14)
    Attacking the line of David. (2 Chr 21, 22, Isa 36, 38, Esther 3)
    After Jesus was born Satan again tried to kill all the male children. (Matt 2)
    Attempt to throw Jesus off a cliff. (Luke 4)
    The Cross. (Luke 23:26-43)

    Finally let’s look at the question, could we all come from Noah? As it turns out this is an important question, because the mtDNA today points to three distinct types of people.

    The Human Genome Project found that all humans have virtually identical DNA, which suggests a bottleneck somewhere in our past. Y chromosomes are similar throughout the world with no divergent Y lineages found, this indicates that there is one paternal common ancestor (called Y-chromosomal Adam). This is where it gets even better, they have discovered that there are three main mtDNA lineages found worldwide. These are labeled: M, N and R. And these mtDNA are similar enough that they have concluded they originated in a single female who lived before this bottleneck (called Mitochondrial Eve). Because they have found the human DNA almost identical, this would mean that our genetic diversity is consistent with a few thousand years not millions. Further proof of this, a recent paper was published in Jan 2013 (this is linked to in the enrichment) concluded that most mutations in humans happened not millions of years ago but only in the last 5,000 to 10,000 years.

    How does this DNA prove the flood?

    There are signs of a bottleneck which show we almost became extinct.
    How many Y chromosomes on the Ark? One – the three sons inherited their Y chromosome from Noah.
    So, there should be only one Y chromosome lineage today.

    How many different mtDNAs on the Ark for offspring? Three. The three wives of Noah’s sons. (The Bible doesn’t mention that Noah and his wife had any more children).

    So, there should be three mtDNA lineages today.
    These three mtDNA lineages should trace back to a single female ancestor (Biblical Eve). Proof of this would be that the three mtDNAs lineages are similar.

    Due to the relatively high amount of mutations humans pass down to children (approx 100 mutations per generation), and the Flood occurring about 4,500 years ago, genetic diversity in humans today should be consistent with thousands, not millions, of years. (Human history, not the age of the earth – the age of the earth is irrelevant).
    This doesn’t mean that evolutionist believe in the Biblical Adam and Eve or creation, they concede only that, “he (Adam) co-existed with other human males however his line was the only one to produce a direct unbroken line to all males living today.”

    This leads back to why God saved Noah; his lineage was whole, complete, and perfect. His lineage from Adam was pure and uncorrupted; in fact, it seems his lineage may have been the only line left which was uncorrupted before the flood.

    So that it’s. I think this addresses some of the points you brought up. Love the podcast and can’t wait to see the changes you guys are bringing to the website. And well done, you did pronounce my last name correctly. 🙂

  2. “As we read above the Nephilim were taking women and having children.” My mistake, Nephilim should read as ‘sons of God’ or Benei Ha’Elohim. These who were taking women not the Nephilim, sorry for the confusion.

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